An interesting conversation I'm having
I'm having an interesting discussion on a BBS (which isn't normally about soccer - this was on a subject called "Small Achievements"), that I want to share. I've mentioned on there several times that I ref, and make a comment or two about a good or bad game, but this is the first time I've gone in-depth. Here's the conversation so far:(Note: I can't link to this, because the way the board I'm writing about isn't set up any way that a URL would work; I've also edited out some irrelevant content)
Oct 8 2005 2:52pm from Monochrome
My U7 soccer team won their first two games of the Columbus day tourney today -- games 3 & 4 are tomorrow. Since they're U7 this is indeed a _small_ achievement!
Oct 8 2005 2:53pm from Ladyhawke
Subject: Re:
Nice, Mono!
Oct 8 2005 10:22pm from arabella
w00t for Mono, and IG
Oct 10 2005 10:24am from Monochrome
Day 2 results -- boys won 1 lost one, leaving them 3-1, or second place. Um, and I almost got a red card from the ref -- then again the ref was so clueless that I don't think she knew what a red card was. I did have the tourney director come up to me and tell me to take it easy on the ref, but at the same time 4 field marshals appeared at the pitch to watch the rest of the game -- hmmmm, maybe I wasn't the only one to complain about the ref.
Oct 10 2005 10:45am from Ladyhawke
Subject: Re:
W00t, Mono!!
Oct 11 2005 9:40pm from arabella
Mono: w00t!
Oct 19 2005 9:21am from *****
Mono, I like you, so I'll be nice - but could you let me speak a bit from the soapbox?
I've been a soccer referee for five years now, so you can imagine, that you getting a send-off is nothing that I'll go "Woot!" about. I'm now a Grade 7 referee, which officially says I'm qualified to center up to U-19 games, some adult, and line some higher; it also means I take a more difficult version of the test and an annual physical - but in reality it means I just get to screw up with more authority.
I'm going to run with your assumption that the referee was clueless, for the sake of arguement; we all start clueless with we referee. You see, unlike your players, we can't practice: We can read the Laws, read whatever supplimental texts we can find, we can understand intellectually, but putting it into practice is an entirely different matter. It takes time to read the game, understand how bodies move when you're an on-field observer, and then try to link it up with 17 Laws (after time, you can start applying Law 18, which is unwritten, but like so much else, it takes time).
Being you had a U7 game, you had a Grade 8, maybe even a nine (a "Blue Badge"); this is an entry-level referee - one who is learning, and if they're clueless, they SHOULD be given a break. You're a coach for your team, not the referees; they DO have mentors and people to help them along, but like teaching a kid to play the game, you have to work one area at-a-time (even if it is an adult in the middle). I've yet to find a coach that's read the Laws of the Game (it's not even a requirement for an "A" Coach's License), with a few exceptions of those who also referee, which makes you unqualified to critique them - ESPECIALLY in front of six and seven year-olds.
Think about that - on who saw you get ejected, and how you reacted (I hope it was calm and collected)? I hate to tell you, the field marshalls weren't there to look at the referee, but to make sure the parents don't go nuts and you didn't return (field marshalls are just volunteer parents, who know squat-all about the game). But if you did go nuts, all that does is make that referee want to quit. I've seen it happen: an adult coach goes off on a 14 year-old kid, and he never refs again.
80% of all referees quit in the first two years. Why? Because the first survival skill has nothing to do with how good a referee you are; it's how well you deal with abuse. Good referees that could have gone places have dropped the whistle because they weren't allowed to develop; because "adults" coulnd't put it past themselves that these are human beings, and that we'll all screw-up (or even admit that the referee saw something they might have missed). There's only one way to break that cycle, and it has nothing to do with the people who are reffing.
Oct 19 2005 10:23am from wizard of aahz
[offers three cheers to *****]
Oct 19 2005 1:03pm from Monochrome
***** -- I accept what you're saying, I really do, but let me give an example of one problem -- this really happened. She (the ref) called a corner kick, and then proceeded to tell the team defending that end of the pitch to kick the corner kick. Yes, I coach the kids, but even U7 kids aren't clueless, they're all thinking, "Wait, um, doesn't the corner kick go the the team attacking, the goal kick to the team defending." I had no coice but to yell about that one. Keep in mind, I'm _not_ saying that she called a corner and I thought it should be a goal -- that's her call. But if she calls a corner she darn well better have the correct team kick the ball. That showed one of two things to me -- either she didn't understand a corner kick, or she didn't know which end of the field she was on -- either isn't acceptable. One other example, she called "throw in", ok, that's fine. We looked at her and said "for who" to which she responded "thrown in" again we said "ok, for who" and again, looking annoyed as if she'd answered the question, she said "throw in" and again, we said "ok, but which team should throw it in" at which point she got it, thought about it for about 5 seconds and then picked a team (I don't even recall which team).
Finally, as for the field marshals -- I watched on of them yell at the ref several times ("hey" , "Hey", "HEY") while waving her flag to get the ref to count the players on the field -- the other team had one too many -- for the second time in the match.
As for the ref grade -- I'm going to guess that most refs in the tourney weren't graded at all, they were probably just HS players that got paid a couple of bucks to ref a game. At the highers levels I'm sure they're "real" refs, at this level they're just kids that play the game and generally know the rules. And that's ok with me. But there needed to be some level of knowledge -- and I think it teaches an equally bad lesson to the kids if the coach doesn't stick up for their "rights" and yell when there are violations of the rules -- it teaches the lesson that it's ok to break the rules if you're not getting cought.
Finally, the Small Achievement was that my kids did well, _not_ that I almost got red carded.
Oct 19 2005 5:08pm from *****
I disconcur - you still do have a choice. As far as the refs not having any certification (and Grade 8 you only need a 70% on a 100-qustion multiple choice test), that't the problem of the tournament, then.
My point is, there are better ways to deal with it than to yell at the kids. I can tell you, as an experienced ref that is working on coming to terms with how I react to other people on the pitch, I know that the more obnoxious someone is, the less likely I am to give that person a break - not because I'm mean, but because, in my mind as a referee, I'm more likely to see that person as cynical and trying to take advantage of the situation; to simplify it: when people scream at you, human nature takes over, and you defend yourself by insulating yourself from your environment.
As for defending your players "rights" - that's not your job. You may think it's your job, but the Laws are pretty clear that the coach's job is to distribute "tactical instructions" - not ride the referee, even if he does make a blatant error (which in your example, he does). If the assignor was good (although in most youth tournaments it's a rarity, which is why I've all but forsaken tournaments with a few notable exceptions), he probably had a senior AR (the one in front of the benches) that could have done a better ob than you; or you could have alerted the tournament after the game - they'll be far more receptive if you hadn't been tossed, which I think is a far better example to set for your kids.
All really very good stuff gents, thank you so much for the discussion.
Marc A.Silverstein, ENY () - 21 October '05 - 14:40
Sometimes there’s no reasoning with fools. The point remains that this was a rec u7 game and the coach behaved badly. End of story. If he got that worked up over minor technicalities in a little soccer game, there must not be much going on in his life. Sweetie, you’re wasting your breath.Lee () - 26 October '05 - 11:46
Maybe, maybe not. Here’s my thought: he’s a new and inexperienced coach, not a grizzled old foam-sprayer doing U14+.I figured two things, even if it didn’t sway him, it’s in a public forum where other, maybe parents could pick up on something from a side they don’t normally hear from (much like this site). Or (switch to an “and” if I’m lucky), being he’s new at it, he might just become a gleaming example of how coaches and refs should be working together, rather than as adversaries… or at least more civil to the next ref.
In any case, I think it’s heartening that he’s interested in taking a Grade 8 course.
TheRef - 28 October '05 - 23:18
On second thought, you’re quite right. There’s the coach “maturation” factor to consider, too. So this Coach just needs more experience and perspective.Sometimes I’m just a grouch….
Lee () - 29 October '05 - 13:43
I think you made some great comments to her without demeaning her. I don’t think they got through unfortunatly, but at least you stayed level headed and tried. I start my ref “career” this weekend and it’s stuff like this that gets me a bit nervous!Mark - 11 September '09 - 07:56